Потребител на Interactive Brokers получи любовно писъмце от IRS (сащанската данъчна служба) - формуляр Schedule K-1 Form 1065
Клиент на Interactive Brokers се оплака, че е получил писмо от IRS (данъчната служба на САЩ), съдържащо Form 1065. Без да е стъпвал в САЩ, без да има зелена карта за САЩ, без да е гражданин на САЩ.
Най-вероятната причина е, че потребителят е купил ETF, който се разглежда като дружество (partnership).
Certain investment products, including Volatility, Currency, and Commodity ETFs are structured to operate as partnerships. They issue a Schedule K-1 to each partner (i.e., investor) to report their share of income, gains, losses, deductions, or of any other taxable event. For a more detailed description of the Schedule K-1, see the FAQs below.Източник: Schedule K-1 (Form 1065) Tax Information
Друг инвеститор се оплаква в Reddit:
So I'm dumb and invested in an ETF that files as a partnership so I received a K1 form. I barely had any money in the ETF and sold real quick, so my percent ownership and everything across the board on the K1 is 0. This includes interest income, net short term gain, other income, other deductions, partner's share of profit / loss/ and capital. My ending capital is also $0.
I cant find too much information that explains this in simple terms. How do file this if I already filed? What if this was traded in a Roth IRA? I have 0 income otherwise, am a student.
I appreciate the help. Definitely gonna be more conscious of the type of ETFs I invest in as I did not realize this was a thing.
Една малка глупава сделка, от която може да имате почти никаква печалба или даже загуба, може да ви вкара в разходи за данъчни консултации или до загуба на време в ровене по данъчните форуми.
Преди да купите ETF гледайте дали пише нещо за Schedule K-1 или Form 1065 за да не ви стресне IRS с данъчен формуляр за попълване и да не си губите времето с червена лента.
От това, че някои ETF-и се разглеждат като partnerships може би следва, че в тези случаи дяловете им трябва да се разглеждат като дружествени дялове и да се декларира притежанието на тези дялове в данъчната декларация, която се подава към НАП.
Източник: Is an ETF Really a Fund? Maybe Not.
Каква е логиката на облагането на дивидентите при инвестирането чрез ETFs
Възможно е да ви пратят формуляр за попълване и ако купите дялове от MLP (Master Limited Partnership)
Примери за MLP са Energy Transfer LP (NYSE:ET) и Magellan Midstream Partners LP (NYSE:MMP).
Инвеститор от Европа, който е инвестирал в ET, се оплака, че го занимават с данъчна червена лента:
I got a tax package with K-1 as a European, Help. (self.tax)
submitted 15 days ago by ErikasKabak
I got a Energy Transfer LP tax package with schedule K-1 (Form 1065). I did buy NYSE:ET last year and sold last year, and the info in there is correct.
Now, I am a European Citizen. Do I have to do anything? I surely do not have to pay taxes to US?
It says the package contains the tax guidance. "This information is being provided for your general guidance"
It links to a website that I can submit corrections www.taxpackagesupport.com/et , but I tried to fill things to the user activation, and everything works (like the K-1 account number), but in section
" Please provide the Social Security Number (SSN) to identify the correct K-1. In the case of a non-individual account, this may be a different Taxpayer ID such as an Employer Identification Number(EIN). "
it says "SSN/EIN must be in the correct format" when I fill my social sec. number, and that's the only one I have in my country.
Всъщност се пише сащански SSN, разбира се, че при опит да се напише SSN издаден от друга държава (например ЕГН) ще излезе съобщение за грешка.
Welcome to the most confusing tax system in the world! Are there any amounts in the boxes numbered on the right hand side of the K-1? If all boxes are zero or blank, you have no US tax liability. If there are amounts in some of the boxes, it depends on the box as to whether or not you have a tax liability. Each box represents a different type of income. Some types are not taxable to nonresidents, some are determined by treaty and some are taxed.
Yeah it's super confusing.
There's a lot of (loss), the positive numbers are on AB Section 751 gain, AE Excess Taxable income, AH3 Depreciation Adjustment for Non-conforming states, gross receipts.
I've read that nonresident aliens do not pay taxes on capital gains only on dividends from US companies. But the 6a Ordinary dividends and 6b Qualified dividends are all 0.
Do I need to pay something? Even if I don't how, I would do that?
Looks like your question was not answered.
As a non-resident of the U.S. who is otherwise generally not required to file a U.S. tax return, you may be required to file and/or pay taxes for two reasons:
As you mentioned in other comments, dividends (also known as FDAP income) is subject to withholding by your broker at the rate of 30% or lower with a tax treaty. If already properly withheld, no tax filings are required.
Unfortunately you invested in a publicly traded partnership. If any of the income on the K-1 is effectively connected income, meaning income from a trade or business derived from U.S. sources, you will be required to file and pay taxes, usually at the max rate. Typically these amounts are in Box 1 through 4 of the K-1, ordinary income or real estate related income. Your broker will generally not have the information to withhold on your behalf, so it will be your responsibility. Additionally if any of the income is sourced to a specific state, you may be required to file in that state as well.
What are the amounts in Box 1, 2, or 3? I doubt there would be anything in Box 4. Also take a look at the footnotes for any language on effectively connected income (ECI). If all amounts in these boxes are blank or negative you most likely have no tax obligation.
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxation-of-nonresident-aliens
I did some searching and yes, you are right my broker does withhold dividends at the rate 30% paid by US corporations to foreign persons.
So I guess that answers my question, because I won't need to file it myself.
Thank you.
На сайта на Midstream Partners LP пише:
Magellan Midstream Partners, L.P. will not pay any federal income tax. Instead, each unitholder will be required to report on his income tax return his share of our income, gains, losses and deductions without regard to whether corresponding cash distributions are received. Our unitholders receive a Schedule K-1 during late February to advise of the income they are responsible for reporting on their individual income tax returns. The Schedule K-1s can also be viewed online.
It is the responsibility of each unitholder to investigate the legal and tax consequences under the law of pertinent states and localities of his investment in Magellan Midstream Partners, L.P. We suggest that you consult with your own tax advisor.
Тоест - пращат ви да се абонирате за счетоводител. Което е политически коректния начин да ви пратят на ....... си.
Midstream Partners LP има добър дивидент, но толкова добър ли, че си струва да се ровите за да разберете какво точно ще искат от вас сащанските данъчни?
До тук прочетох доста неща и пак не ми е ясно - трябва ли или не да се подава и как да се установи за всеки отделен случай.
Май има някаква автоматизация на попълването на тези декларации.
Non-Americans investing in US publicly traded partnerships
- The tax treatment of the sale of US partnerships can be extremely complicated for a non-US investor. All of any capital gain, or only a part of it, may be subject to US tax on sale, depending on various factors which are broadly intended to limit the taxable gain to the extent of the partnership’s business operations in the US.
- The partnership is required to withhold US tax both in respect of annual income and also when the non-US investor sells their shares. In addition the non-US investor is required to file an income tax return to report the annual income, and again when the shares are sold.
The flow through treatment of US partnership interests can be beneficial for US-based investors since the structure prevents corporate profits being subject to two layers of tax (one at the corporate level and one at the shareholder level).
However, the structure presents a headache for any non-US investors, who may not have previously had to file a US return and calculate their own US tax liability.
Ако правилно съм разбрал какво е искал да каже авторът – фирмата (The partnership) е длъжна да удържи сащанския данък както по отношение на евентуалния годишен доход, така и по отношение на дохода от продажба.
Тоест фирмата изпраща попълнени декларации на инвеститорите и на практика инвеститорът не се налага да плаща данък, данъкът е вече платен.
Но инвеститорът трябва да подаде тази декларация. Дори и когато е non-US.
И как точно ще си попълни TIN кода след като няма такъв не ми е ясно.
Но не съм сигурен дали правилно съм го разбрал, дали нещо може да се обърка.
Поредната жертва на червената лента се оплаква:
Отговарят му:I am new to investing and I did not do my due diligence before investing in an MLP stock. I realized that I don't want to deal with the schedule K-1 tax form that comes with it. If I sell all of the shares after holding them for less than a week, will I still receive the K-1? The stock is EPD and I bought 200 shares.
Yes. If you own an entity that issues a K-1 for any period of time (even one day), you'll get a K-1 for that company, usually in March or April.
But if you do not hold through rebalancing (usually at the end of the month), your K-1 will be zeroed out, making it much easier to file.
Един странно оптимистичен отговор:
A K-1 is a tax form that someone receives when they own shares in an S-Corporation, have an interest in a partnership, or are beneficiaries of an estate/trust.И по-надолу на тоя оптимист му обясняват как не е прав и т.н. Няма да го копирам цялото, защото е дълго. Само ще цитирам тази част:
Companies in the stock market are C-Corporations. The following does not apply to them.
MLPs, like the original post mentions, stand for Master Limited Partnerships. A partnership has specific tax advantages that public companies do not have. Partnerships are considered as Pass Through Entities and therefore do not pay tax at the business level.
Instead, anyone who owns an interest in a partnership will receive a K-1 that shows their % of ownership in profits, losses, depreciation, depletion, etc.
The individual then must report this information on their annual tax return. It’s quite simple to report so I’m not sure why the original poster has an issue with it.
Nobody really knows what you're supposed to do here, which is what makes K-1s so obscure and difficult to file correctly. It's not hard to file them incorrectly and I bet nearly everybody files them wrong in some way, but apparently the IRS doesn't seem to care. I know a guy who just zeroes out his K-1 every year and looks only at his 1099-B so he doesn't have to fiddle with the basis adjustments. I know another guy who straight up ignores his K-1s every year. I think he's on like year 7 of not filing K-1s lmao.
Друг инвеститор отвори тази тема и първият отговор е интересен:
One of the bigger issues is a slew of unusual pass through income/expense items that can even confuse tax professionals. Many are immaterial but when you have a portfolio of these investments spitting out unusual K-1 items, merging, converting to C Corp, spinning off, purchasing additional MLPs underneath the MLP you own, etc. things get confusing. It’s not impossible for a novice but for most clients it’s that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze after additional tax prep costs and higher investment fees.
Проблемът с взимането на данъчен номер
Цитирам от тази статия:
The following US entities are generally treated as partnerships for US tax purposes:-
- Limited Liability Companies (LLCs);
- Limited Partnerships (LPs);
- Subchapter S Corporations;
- Publicly Traded Partnerships (PTPs), often also referred to as Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs).
These investments can sometime be recognised by their names which may end in “LLC” or “LP”. However the suffixes “Corp” and “Inc” are sometimes used therefore it is best to check the prospectus to confirm whether the entity is a partnership or corporation.
The tax treatment of the sale of US partnerships can be extremely complicated for a non-US investor. All of any capital gain, or only a part of it, may be subject to US tax on sale, depending on various factors which are broadly intended to limit the taxable gain to the extent of the partnership’s business operations in the US.
The partnership is required to withhold US tax both in respect of annual income and also when the non-US investor sells their shares. In addition the non-US investor is required to file an income tax return to report the annual income, and again when the shares are sold.
От сайта на IRS (източник):
A taxpayer identification number (TIN) is required on all returns, statements, and other tax-related documents and you must provide it upon request to any other person who needs it to comply with the tax law. For most individuals, their TIN is a social security number (SSN). A foreign person, who doesn't have and can't get an SSN, must use an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN).
Според инструкциите за попълване на формуляра Form 1065:
Foreign partners without a U.S. identifying number should be notified by the partnership of the necessity of obtaining a U.S. identifying number. Certain aliens who aren't eligible to obtain SSNs can apply for an ITIN on Form W-7, Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.
Цитат от страницата Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad:
The IRS will accept copies of original documents, if the copies have been properly certified by the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents.
На сайта на нидерландското посолство на САЩ обаче намерих информация, че предлагат услуга за certified copy на паспорт когато копието се ползва с цел получаване на ITIN.
Издателят на паспорта и личната карта доколкото ми е известно няма практика да предоставя заверени копия на тези документи.
На страницата с често задаваните въпроси пише, че може посолството или консулството (на САЩ) да направи certified copy на документите:
Can my foreign consulate or embassy certify my documents?
You may be able to request a certified copy of documents at an embassy or consulate. However, services may vary between countries, so we recommend that you contact the appropriate consulate or embassy for specific information.
Цитат от страницата Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad:
Note: A passport that does not have a date of entry is no longer accepted.
Тоест паспортът е невъзможно да се ползва с цел получаване на ITIN, защото няма печат за влизане в САЩ.
Единствения практически възможен начин, който намерих, е да се платят стотици долари на посредник:
Applicants may also submit their applications by using the services of a Certifying Acceptance Agent (CAA). CAAs are individuals, businesses, or organizations authorized by the IRS to assist taxpayers in the ITIN application process.
Защо цената на тази услуга е стотици долари (напр. $497 на einexpress.com) или даже над хиляда долара (на други сайтове) - не знам. Мирише ми на regulatory capture.
Стотици долари за това номерче е отказващо за много от инвеститорите.
Информацията по темата е противоречива, не намерих достоверна информация какво следва ако не се подаде формулярът Form 1065 в САЩ.
Ако някой знае как се взима ITIN без посредник и без да се ходи в САЩ (с изпращане на документи по пощата) да пише в коментарите.
Не е ясно какво става ако паспортът няма бит печат за влизане в САЩ
Note: A passport that does not have a date of entry is no longer accepted.
Обаче от четене на инструкциите за попълване на формуляра за получаване на ITIN номер са го формулирали по-различно:
Applicants claimed as dependents who need to prove U.S. residency must provide additional original documentation if the passport doesn’t have a date of entry into the United States.
If you submit an original valid passport or a certified copy from the issuing agency, you don’t need to submit any other documents from the table, unless the passport is for a dependent and it doesn’t include a date of entry into the United States.
Обаче инвеститорите в MLPs, живеещи в България, не са US residents и не могат и не трябва да доказват, че живеят в САЩ.
Тоест има несъответствие между абсолютната забрана за приемане на паспорт, който няма бит печат с дата на влизане в САЩ, и условното изискване да се представи друг документ, ако на паспортът не е бит печат и ако подателят на формуляра не е "claimed as dependents who need to prove U.S. residency". Тоест може би има грешка на страницата Obtaining an ITIN from Abroad и не е вярно, че не приемат паспорт без бит печат за влизане в САЩ при определени условия. И би трябвало да приемем информацията на страницата с инструкциите за попълване на формуляра за получаване на ITIN номер за вярна.
В списъкът с възможните документи няма лична карта, издадена от държава, която не е сащански щат. Тоест ако приемем, че това е изчерпателен списък с възможните документи, не може да се прати българска лична карта.
Много малък е шанса да убедят българин да си прати оригиналния birth certificate по пощата.
Ваденето на виза е непрактично също (за тези, които нямат намерение да пътуват до САЩ).
Тоест за хора, които нямат ударен печат за влизане в САЩ на паспорта, е проблемно да си изкарат ITIN с изпращане на документи по пощата. А дори и да имат бит печат вероятно паспортът им е ценен, защото имат виза на него, поради което не биха рискували да го пращат по пощата в оригинал.
Може би най-практично е да се прати дубликат на удостоверението за раждане. Издаването на дубликата е евтино. Обаче може да изискат certified translation на дубликата.
You may later be required by the IRS to provide a certified translation of foreign-language documents.
Не е ясно какво значи certified в този контекст, защото на страницата с инструкции за формуляра Form W-7 това не е уточнено. Може би е достатъчно агенцията за преводи да си е била печата за да се счита за certified превода.
Каква е вероятността да се заяждат, че дубликатът не е certified от органа, който е издал документа (certified copy from the issuing agency) - не знам. На моето удостоверение за раждане пише, че е издадено от "народен съвет", а такъв не съществува в момента.
Изключение за прекомерното дране с данъци чрез "Qualified Notice"
Exemption from withholding may apply if a PTP releases a public statement called a "Qualified Notice" to indicate that the PTP meets the requirements of IRC Sec. 1446(f)- 4(b)(3) to be exempt from withholding.
Възможно е в един момент компанията да има валидна "Qualified Notice", но в следващ момент да няма и да ви изненадат с данък при продажбата.
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